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When it opened and you got in a plane?

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Yes, after the Air Ways of Methods Master, I had been invited to and made this test after.

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Mr. Fry, when you asked us to accept the story that you not only saw a flying saucer,

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but you communicated with some extraterrestrial people, that they flew you to New York and back,

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and I think what I read of your book, they have visited you again,

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you would admit that this is a rather incredible story and that it sort of tests our powers of belief in you.

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Well, I have never asked anyone to accept it. I have presented the report for what it was worth.

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It is of no concern whatever to me actually, whether anyone accepts it or not,

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provided they do a little thinking on the subject that we are about to go into space ourselves.

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The coming generation is going to travel very widely in space.

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It is not too early. In fact, it is pretty late already for them to begin to consider the things which they may meet there when they do.

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The important thing is that we break down some of the thought blocks which have been raised by people who are in position that they should know that.

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I am not partly interrupting, but you say you do not ask us to believe it, and yet you publish the book that you want people to buy, I assume.

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You give lectures that you ask people to pay money to attend.

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I have even been told by some of your former associates that at your ranch in Oregon that you sell real estate for people who might want to build there

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or to be there when and if the spacecraft and space people return.

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Now, what I am wondering is, I would like to find out a little something about yourself.

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Your book says that you are a PhD, that you have this PhD from the St. Andrews College of London.

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University?

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Pardon me, the book says St. Andrews College.

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I did not write the advertising on the book.

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No, it is in the book itself.

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I was not even showing the advertising.

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Well, do you have a PhD?

25
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Yes.

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Where did you get it?

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It was from St. Andrews, but it is the university not a college.

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And where is that located?

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It is on Tottenham Road in London, England.

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I am sorry, but I checked with the Library of Congress and they say there is no university of St. Andrews, university in London.

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There is one in Scotland.

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Now, could you have mistaken Scotland in London?

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No, I could not have mistaken Scotland or got mistaken Tottenham.

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I tell you what I did, Mr. Farmer, I put in a call to the college or university of St. Andrews in London.

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And the operator, I said, well, this man has a PhD or says he has from there, there must be a college.

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And so they gave me the chief information operator in London.

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She said, I am terribly sorry, if there is such a college here, they do not have a telephone.

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Now, could it be that this college has an unlisted phone?

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I do not know about their phones, I would be glad to send you a picture of them.

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I am going to start a photostatic copy of the degree.

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This is something that has come up 50 times before.

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This is not a new thing. It may be new here.

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Could this be what is sometimes called a diploma mill, where you die at the diploma mill?

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No, it is not a diploma mill.

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This organization was chartered by the Crown in 1890.

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There is no reference to it in the directories.

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There is no reference to it in the...

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It does exist.

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It has the power to give degrees.

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I have a degree from it.

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I cannot argue about the merits of the institution.

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We will have to take that into consideration.

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Let's consider something else.

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The book says that Dr. Dan Fry is recognized as the best informed man in the world

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in the subject of space and space travel.

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Now, I presume then that you are a member of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics

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to which all of the space engineers are members.

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Are you a member of that?

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I am not a member at the present time.

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The book also says that Dr. Daniel Fry is an internationally known scientist,

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researcher and electronics engineer.

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Now, are you a member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers?

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I have attended many of their conventions. I have never joined them.

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You know, there are 200,000 members.

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I think probably even the members of the studio engineers are probably members.

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But you are not a member.

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The book on page 15 says,

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during the many years I have been employed in the field of aircraft and spacecraft design,

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I have helped to develop many guided missiles.

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Could you tell us what some of those missiles were?

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The reference there is a reference to controlled instruments on the Atlas missile,

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of which a question to engineering is 9 and of which I personally define 3.

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So many guided missiles mean only one guided missile?

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No, we sold instruments for many, or five people, every missile that's ever let to down.

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The person has furnished one or more instruments for it.

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Well, now the book says that as a scientist, and here I'm quoting,

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researcher and electronics engineer who helped, he's speaking of you,

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who helped us to develop the guidance missile system for our rockets and astronauts.

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Now, what company did develop the guidance system for the Atlas?

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There have been at least 200 companies that have guided the Atlas.

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Who was the prime contractor for the Atlas guidance system?

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The prime contractor for the Atlas was Convair Astronautics,

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which is our instruments directly from President Engineering and Research.

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Well, I have here a page from the Air Force magazine,

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which is the unofficial spokesman for the Air Force,

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and they say that the radio guidance system for the Atlas on the D model

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was built by John Electric and Burroughs, and that on the later E and F models

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it was built by American Bosch Armand.

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What are referring to the radio guidance, which is a very small portion of the total guidance system

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of the Atlas?

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Well, the Air Force seems to think otherwise because in their official listing

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they disagree with you.

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So it's you against the Air Force, and it's who developed the guidance system.

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Would you, let me put it this way,

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would you be willing to have us believe or disbelieve your whole story

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on the basis of whether you are right that the General Dynamics

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developed the Atlas guidance, or whether it was General Electric, Burroughs, and Armand?

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No, you can't change the truth of the untruth because of a collateral statement,

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as I say, and I have said before, and that's particularly concerned,

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whether anyone accepts the story with or without such type of confirmation.

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This is not...

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I have to believe your background, aren't you?

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Well, the background I can demonstrate.

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I mean that it's possible to launch a collateral attack against anyone under any circumstances.

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I've heard it done many times.

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It has been attempted with me on many occasions in the past ten years.

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For a time I carried documentary evidence of every one of these items with me

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because when these woke attacks came I had to have these specific documents to review the statement.

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That phase seemed to end about three years ago,

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and so I haven't been carrying any things along lately, so I don't have all of them.

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I do have perhaps a few documents here.

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I can't answer some of these questions.

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Well, let's consider some other aspects of this.

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I talked to some of your former associates and employers

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at both Pressing Engineering and Air-Jet General.

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Are you a graduate engineer with formal training, a formal bachelor's degree?

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Probably not in the sense that you would recognize.

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I did develop these instruments.

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In fact, I built the only instrument that Pressing Engineering ever made any money on.

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Edmund B. Sawyer and Daniel W. Fry started Pressing Engineering.

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We built Pressing Engineering for about the first two years that we developed instruments.

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We were the only people in Pressing Engineering.

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When we began to sell these instruments to Convair,

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we built a fair-sized plant which still produces a little over a million dollars worth of such instruments every year.

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How do you say we?

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Edmund B. Sawyer and myself.

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He is no longer the two of us.

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The two of you, sir.

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And at the time you were with it, it had what, about a dozen or two dozen employees?

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At the time I left it, it had 135 employees.

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It now has 85?

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Yes, that's true. It's been going downhill ever since I left.

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Would you say you are a graduate engineer? You have a BA from some point?

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I am not a graduate engineer in the sense that would be accepted by person by person.

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Well, in what sense are you a graduate engineer?

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I am a graduate engineer in the sense that I have taken all of the studies that are required for a graduate engineer and many more.

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I have done the work of graduate engineers for many years.

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Where did you get your BA, Mr. Fry?

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I did not say that I had a BA.

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Well, how can you go to PhD if you don't have a BA and an M?

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I have a... this is beyond my understanding.

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The PhD, which was given to me, was given specifically as a recognition of the thesis, which is what a PhD requires.

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But you cannot qualify for a PhD unless you have a BA and an M.A.

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Yes, I have been through this, these arguments.

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I have never known it before.

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It is not a valid argument. It is the usual route through which sex a thing is achieved.

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May we approach another thing?

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Some of your associates told me that you had been quite interested in science fiction even before this incident is alleged to have occurred.

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This is not true. I mean, I have never been any more interested in science fiction than anyone else.

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Well, what they did tell me was...

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What existed at that time has become science fact in the interim.

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What they did tell me was that you used to brag to members of Press and Engineering when you began your career of lecturing.

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That you used to brag to them that you would make more money in one night of lecturing

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and you would make in a whole week or a whole month at Press and Engineering.

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This is a complete falsehood. I would like to have the name of the individual here and now that made that statement.

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Because it is kind of my journey to put a stop to some of these false statements.

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You have never made such a statement to anyone.

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Who is the name? What is the name of the gentleman who said that?

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Well, we will talk about that later.

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We will talk about that later.

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In other words, in other words, there was a name.

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I have to share something with all of you right now.

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Mr. Fry, you took issue with what I was told by one of your former employers.

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Yes, but we have no employers. I don't think they are there at the beginning.

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Some of these are men who have since left.

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Well, something else maybe you can clarify. You do have a ranch in Oregon. Is that right?

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I don't have a ranch in Oregon. I do own some property in Oregon.

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Do you sell pieces of that property to people?

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I have sold some pieces of it.

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Yes, I had never sold pieces on the principle that this was a good place to be when they saw us or lands.

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How many plots have you sold?

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About 12.

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And what is your present source of income? I don't mean to be personal, but are you a practicing electronics?

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I do still sell some instruments. Yes, I have some papers in here, discussions in here, which relate to that.

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There is one patent coming out of the patent office now. I have two more ready to go in.

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I do have a laboratory at Merlin, Oregon, where I live, in which I still do some development aside from the development of land there.

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I have never made a living or attempted to make a living by lecturing or writing books.

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Mr. Fry, does the Air Force believe your story about going up in this crap and hearing voices? Does NASA believe this?

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I have no idea. I have no idea what the Air Force or NASA believes.

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Don't you care with an incident like this? It seems to me you'd like the world to know about that.

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Not particularly. I would like the world to think about something that we're getting into in space that our children are going to be responsible for.

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We are thinking about it. We just heard a report from Germany. It's about thousands of dollars.

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I read an article the other day on Astronomer and the Astronomer's name.

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He said that before a ship would come down, it would take...

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A man in Parkersburg, West Virginia, who said that he had a meeting with a spacecraft and they said,

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have no fear, we come from a country and so on.

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The interesting thing is that when they talk to this man, they didn't say to him,

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by the way, do you happen to know Dan Fry? You know, when you're a visitor in a far off land, you meet somebody.

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And in fact, a number of other people who say that they have ridden with inclined saucers and talked to spacemen,

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never do the spacemen say, do you know Dan Fry or do you know Joe Smith or John Jones that we've given a right to.

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How do you account for this? Are each of them coming from a different planet, do you think?

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There was a lecture given by a reasonably prominent biocanist about two years ago,

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in which he put it this way. And as he approached statistically the inevitable number of life forms in this galaxy,

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which according to the NASA study completed a couple of years ago comes out at least a million,

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he pointed out that if we were visited at random by ships just on their way from point A to point B,

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who looked in on this primitive civilization, and just beginning to develop rudiments of intelligence,

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that if we were visited 10,000 times in succession, it would still be statistically improbable

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that any two of them had come from the same place in the same type of traffic for the same purpose.

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That in view of the tremendous number of probable sources,

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that 10,000 into cases would probably not contain any proof.

201
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What's the first thing you do for a new charge for your lecture?

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A charge is made, yes. It is usually come somewhere near paying the cost to the hall of medicine.

203
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And do you also show pictures that you've taken?

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I do show some pictures, yes.

205
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These movies that are supposed to have made are the fine saucer.

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I couldn't find any reference in the book as to when you had made them or where.

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These two pictures, which I am showing, were made on three widely separated places.

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They cover about seven years.

209
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Did you make them?

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I made two of them. One of them was made by another man, although it is put in simply because there are remarkable resemblances.

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One was made on one of the Hawaiian Islands.

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One was made in Southern California. One was made in the North of Oregon.

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Why don't you people ever record the voices that you hear?

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Because while I do carry a camera, unfortunately, recording equipment is really difficult to carry around on your shoulder.

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Every area you go, I have carried a camera almost continuously for the last 27 years, but I find recording equipment is still a little bulky.

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Well, Mr. Glass bought a little recorder in here today, and it is bigger than I heard.

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Pre-pond, yes.

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Will it be able to carry something like that up to the stage?

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The recorder, the record made, would not be considered any more seriously than pictures.

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Why do you show the pictures?

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Because the pictures do have some interest to the people who see them.

222
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,000
They might not have any interest in the camera.

223
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,000
I understand that your son still works back at Creston Engineering. How long has it been since you've talked with him?

224
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,000
It has been perhaps a year or so.

225
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000
What are his views on you?

226
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000
I have no idea.

227
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,000
You don't know what your son thinks of your ideas on fine-concentration?

228
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,000
Well, all right. I don't know what we've called here, but I think we have to carry some of them.

229
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000
Carry some of them?

230
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,000
Because the type of work the program seldom does.

231
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,000
I mean, you get into the company, you don't get any points made about it.

232
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,000
Oh, yeah.

233
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,000
I do. I would like to have before he finished listening red since he...

234
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,000
I'd like you to read it, sir, if you would.

235
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,000
This is taken from the facilities report of the Creston Engineering Research Facilities Report.

236
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000
All right. I'll tell you what I'm very happy with.

237
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,000
I'm happy that you have them all staying if they want to, and you don't have another session for you.

238
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,000
We've been talking with Daniel Fry and Phil Klatt and Bruce Bulkner.

239
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Thank you very much for listening.

240
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000
We'll try this again tomorrow. One of my guests is Friday being Bruce Bulkner about his book, Dirty Politics.

241
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,000
All right.

242
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:13,000
This I would have no special argument with, but this is not quite the same as saying you're the world's greatest facial person out there.

243
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000
Well, I had nothing to do with saying that.

244
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,000
I protested and a lot of the families and the media staff were told a whole book out.

245
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000
The gentleman who published the book was a little over-enthusiastic.

246
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000
He published and put that cover on without my knowledge.

247
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,000
You didn't have to approve anything that went into the book or on the book.

248
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,000
I did approve. I did. I was never shown that. I was never shown that.

249
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,000
I did check the reality.

250
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Anything that's in your words, in the book itself, you wrote and you would stand by that.

251
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:53,000
With two exceptions. Also, a change was made in the statement that the rocket principle is similar to thrusting an ore out of the boat.

252
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:58,000
I said, I'm going to say this. I break from the gallows and put in. I said, join rocks over the scrimmage.

253
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,000
All right. I won't worry about that. But you said Alan gave me, and here I'm quoting page 65,

254
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,000
gave me a considerable amount of advanced technical and scientific data, which had proven to be completely valid.

255
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000
And I found it useful when applying to my work as an electronics engineer.

256
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,000
What was some of that, Bruce Bulkner?

257
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000
Have you written any technical papers?

258
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,000
There is a book that this is how I got the page in the beginning.

259
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:30,000
This was granted for the material in a book called Steps to the Stars, which went about the principle that a gravitational field is not quite linear,

260
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000
as opposed to Newton that acts as follows a curve.

261
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,000
That is therefore reaches zero value, not an infinity.

262
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:46,000
So it was that I find that a real distance, which according to now a PhD, a PhD thesis is supposed to be based on original research.

263
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,000
Now here Alan gave you this material, and you merely reported what he told you.

264
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,000
Now how could you in good conscience accept a PhD?

265
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000
How could you in good conscience?

266
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,000
I did not accept it. It was simply trust on me.

267
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,000
I have never made anything of this. I don't use doctor in my own conversation.

268
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,000
But it's on the cover of the book.

269
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,000
The people at Preston Engineering told me that you did use the term doctor a great deal of the time.

270
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,000
I had never used two-mail. I mentioned the most of the male thumbs.

271
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,000
I did not use it at all at the time I was at Preston Engineering, so I don't know how the people I knew.

272
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
Well this is strange. As I say, I talk to...

273
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,000
I would like to get some specific names, so I could write something out.

274
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,000
In the book you said on page two, you said,

275
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:41,000
Unfortunately, factors involving the roles of military security prohibited the publication of a large amount of the specific data I received.

276
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,000
Now these are your words.

277
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,000
They prohibited it. It's not my words.

278
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000
Well I'm sorry, I'll go to...

279
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000
Yes, I know it's in the book. I don't deny it.

280
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Now did you submit that you know the...

281
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000
My book is issued. It's going to be some medical changes.

282
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000
I can give you a copy of the original book, which I did write.

283
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:09,000
Did you or did you not submit this material in 1950 to the military authorities at White Sands and say,

284
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000
Is this classified or isn't it classified?

285
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Can I talk about it or can't I?

286
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:20,000
Because if it was classified, if it was that vital, then the military should have had it as soon as...

287
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000
You know, to help us overcame the corruption.

288
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:29,000
I'm not referring to the classification of the incident itself. That was reported at great length.

289
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Well you were talking about why you didn't disclose it.

290
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000
I did disclose it. I did disclose it. This thing, this is...

291
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,000
It was the original paper on this was written, it was published in 1954.

292
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000
It's one of the 15 printings since that time. It's been printed in nine foreign languages.

293
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,000
Now wait, you say no public report was made of this event at the time it occurred?

294
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,000
Not the exact time, yes.

295
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Partly because the U.S. missile proven ground where I worked operated under a tight security...

296
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000
I didn't say no public report, I didn't say no private report.

297
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000
I see. So you did report it to the official...

298
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,000
I didn't report it to the official...

299
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
Did you write, make a written report?

300
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,000
No.

301
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,000
Or you didn't make a written report?

302
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000
Um...

303
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,000
You said I was convinced they should, referring to...

304
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,000
Earth people, have access to technical and scientific data which was offered by the operator of the SpaceCat.

305
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:28,000
Unfortunately, factors involving the rules of military security prohibited the publication of a large amount of the specific data I received.

306
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,000
Um...

307
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,000
Twelve years of now elapsed and the factors which prevented the publication of a full story at that time have run their course.

308
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,000
What are those factors? I mean, why can you publish it now but you couldn't publish it?

309
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,000
There is, yes. You can use that to run a case.

310
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000
Oh, this...

311
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Oh, I don't think so.

312
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000
No, no, restricted material remained...

313
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
I have carried half-shake of classification ever since I came home.

314
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
Indeed, so have I since I was in the industry.

315
00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:00,000
But let me remind you, Dr. Fry, that just because ten years elapses does not automatically declassify material.

316
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,000
In fact, the details of Custer's last stand are still classified.

317
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,000
Um...

318
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000
So there's the ten-year limit, statute of limitations does not apply to classified material.

319
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000
I'll take the chance.

320
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000
I'll take the chance on this.

321
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000
I think I can defend it.

322
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,000
I... You haven't had any complaints then that you've revealed any vital information?

323
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,000
I haven't had any.

324
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:34,000
Mr. Fry, finally then, I would like to clear up a few things because I accept the anonymity I'd like to have Mr. Fry...

325
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,000
Oh, all right.

326
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,000
People were very mild for degrees and...

327
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000
Achievement.

328
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000
Yes, Achievement.

329
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
The kids are going to clarify and underline.

330
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000
You say you do not have a regular band.

331
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,000
You do not have a regular MA.

332
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
But you do not have a Ph.D.

333
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,000
Is that correct?

334
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
I have said only that one was given Ph.D.

335
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000
I was given Ph.D.

336
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:09,000
As far as the institution which gave it, it has no cricket team and it has no soccer team.

337
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000
How many students are there?

338
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,000
I don't know the present.

339
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
What is the address?

340
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Cottonham Road in London.

341
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Say again?

342
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,000
Cottonham Road.

343
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,000
T-O-T-T-T-M.

344
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,000
I have not corresponded with them for some years.

345
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000
I don't even know if they exist.

346
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,000
I'm sure that if you address something, too, you have to know.

347
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,000
But they don't have a telephone.

348
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000
I don't know what their telephone is.

349
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000
But I told you.

350
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
I'm going to call the London.

351
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
But if you'll make a call to the director of the St. Andrews College,

352
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
I will pay for the call.

353
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,000
I have not been able to go for many phone numbers that were not listed there.

354
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,000
But I went to information.

355
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,000
I went to information.

356
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
I was in 1960.

357
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,000
In 1960, you didn't have the honorary degree before 1960.

358
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,000
All right.

359
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,000
Well, you can read about this.

360
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Five.

361
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
And we have also been...

362
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
I told you.

363
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000
Oh, okay.

364
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,000
Because then you did know.

365
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000
No, I have no objection to the attitude.

366
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,000
It's just that I'm not going to...

367
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,000
I've been through it a hundred times since I was...

368
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Oh, so other people have been a little suspicious, too.

369
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,000
It was... It was... It was...

370
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,000
In some cases, some people have been interested.

371
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Some people have been unable to attack the data itself.

372
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000
The best thing to do is to attack the individual who reported it.

373
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
But it's never successful.

374
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Now, I see...

375
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,000
I programmed what the little bit said.

376
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
It usually just makes me a professional.

377
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
But it is the case with Dunn.

378
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,000
I mean, some people think this is smart data, folks, etc.

379
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,000
So it isn't faster than more.

380
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,000
I mean, five, six, seven years ago, it was very fast.

381
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000
And maybe somehow, I mean...

382
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Anything that Dunn said is always going to...

383
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,000
I've done anything that people can't do.

384
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000
But there has been a considerable change in public output, I mean.

385
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
And, of course, these countries are up and down, I suppose.

386
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000
You have seen your son within the last year, then?

387
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000
No.

388
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000
How long has it been since you've seen him?

389
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000
It is probably...

390
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Within the last two years, you've seen him.

391
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,000
He is in... He is in California, in Oregon.

392
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,000
When I am home, it's just in the last five years.

393
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
It's been a long time.

394
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000
Why are you doing so much traveling?

395
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,000
Well, in two occasions, I came last twice because my wife's mother was...

396
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,000
Yeah, and it's great to see that.

397
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,000
I'm a teacher.

398
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,000
It's great to see that.

399
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000
I did this in my free...

400
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000
And not because I was requested.

401
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Well, then you have seen your son definitely within two years.

402
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,000
I don't know.

403
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,000
I don't know.

404
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Within five years?

405
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Yes, I have seen him within five years.

406
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,000
But you never discuss your book or your flying saucer interest with him?

407
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
We have discussed it, yes.

408
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Then you must know either he agrees and accepts your views,

409
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000
or he disagrees with them?

410
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000
In eight years, I think they're true scientists,

411
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,000
and the true scientists doesn't quite accept or reject anything.

412
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
He looks at what can...

413
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000
What advantage can be obtained from it?

414
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,000
What is the name of your company now that you say you're doing

415
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
if you have a small laboratory?

416
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,000
They are...

417
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Oh.

418
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000
What is the name of it?

419
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000
I don't know.

420
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,000
Are you making...

421
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,000
Still working in transducers?

422
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000
I am still working in...

423
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000
I have both AC and DECC.

424
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
And who do you sell them to?

425
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,000
I sell them to...

426
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,000
I don't know.

427
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,000
I agree.

428
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,000
I don't care.

429
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,000
I don't care.

430
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,000
I don't care.

431
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000
I agree.

432
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Films, I'm sure.

433
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,000
I mean, I've been selling them to...

434
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,000
This is from your boring observatory in our question university.

435
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000
They did May 31, 1966.

436
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
Dear Don...

437
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,000
This is right here.

438
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
All right.

439
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Couldn't you make a copy of the original?

440
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,000
You have made copies.

441
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000
I have now.

442
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,000
Yeah.

443
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
But so valuable a film as this, you know,

444
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000
or I would think that you would have rushed out and had copies made

445
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,000
supposing their house burned down or something terrible happened to it.

446
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Oh, that's how you service people.

447
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:42,000
So you normally give about 20 to 25 lectures where they're paid...

448
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,000
They're very paid, I think.

449
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000
I'm very few of these spaces.

450
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000
That's the price for them.

451
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Is there anything left for what?

452
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,000
For the lecture.

453
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,000
I mean, usually, he's paid for the hall of an example.

454
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,000
I lectured in Philadelphia four days ago.

455
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000
And how many people?

456
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000
700.

457
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,000
In the total, I paid for something over $1,000.

458
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,000
I got exactly $60 out of which I paid it.

459
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,000
That's how I put the fellows and crew up.

460
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000
You got $60 plus your transportation?

461
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
I didn't get my transportation.

462
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,000
I paid my own transportation.

463
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,000
And are your books on sale?

464
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,000
I have nothing from the sale.

465
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,000
I mean, the publisher was selling them.

466
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,000
That is, I get $0.20 per book.

467
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
These are my critical books.

468
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,000
$0.20 per book?

469
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
That is 5%.

470
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,000
It's just normal.

471
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,000
5% is normal?

472
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,000
It's normal.

473
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
Well, I mean, retail prices and books are just normal.

474
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
People say other people get rich ready books.

475
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,000
They just don't know what they're doing.

476
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,000
How many copies have you sold?

477
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,000
When did this come out?

478
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Just about three.

479
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,000
This issue.

480
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,000
It has been out for, I was just saying, 54.

481
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,000
It's been out 15 times.

482
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,000
Oh, this has been printed 15 times?

483
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Not this.

484
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
This is not this issue.

485
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,000
The original report.

486
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,000
You say you never made any money on this?

487
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,000
I've never received any royalties.

488
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000
Why?

489
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Well, because they were published by companies that never had any money to pay royalties.

490
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000
They were published by small-all-day companies.

491
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
New Age Publishing Company, which did the first job,

492
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,000
and which requested the right to do it.

493
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000
I didn't go to any company.

494
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000
I had no idea of publishing this and what's going on at all.

495
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,000
The publisher heard about it before it came to me and asked me to do it.

496
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
And I took three or four days to decide and I thought, well,

497
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
at least I'll never have to defend the thing.

498
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,000
I'll never have to write so again if he puts in the book form.

499
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,000
I can say there's a book reading that I can make of it, whatever you please.

500
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000
And it never occurred to you to ask for royalties?

501
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,000
It did occur to me to ask for royalties.

502
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
I have a hard and fast legal agreement which calls for royalties.

503
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Unfortunately, the publisher never had the money to pay it.

504
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,000
He did make money on this book.

505
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Was that the same publisher who published the earlier book?

506
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:08,000
No, this one hopefully, this one hopefully, may take five or seven books.

507
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,000
The publisher has improved this edition.

508
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,000
He did make money on it.

509
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,000
Unfortunately, he published a lot of books on which he lost money.

510
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,000
When you left Preston Engineering, which was about 1955, wasn't it?

511
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
No, I was later than that.

512
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,000
I was later than that.

513
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,000
I was later than that.

514
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000
I was later than that.

515
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000
I think it's still in the facilities.

516
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,000
I'm sorry, you left about 1960.

517
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,000
I was looking down to verify the fact that I had been there.

518
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,000
The security officer with whom I had played golf,

519
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000
looked at you with those, so I had a club club, came on the phone,

520
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,000
and they asked me if I had any objection to greatness.

521
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,000
And I said, no, I don't have any objection.

522
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Our security record show no evidence of anyone that had been in the down and private.

523
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000
I missed the guy I played golf with.

524
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,000
So at least now, it's admitted that I was there.

525
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Well, as I say, they are jet people and the Preston people.

526
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000
They are jet people, tell me you work on instrumentation.

527
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Yes, I was an instrument maker.

528
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
I titled this instrument maker.

529
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Well, as a matter of fact, they had considerable praise for your ability as a mechanical designer and as a technician.

530
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Well, I worked for them last year for about three weeks.

531
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000
They looked for me this year, except I was in Cairo when they looked for me.

532
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,000
I never told them what I got.

533
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Cairo, what were you doing in Cairo?

534
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000
I was doing some investigation in the Kyaps pyramid.

535
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
I had a lot of stories about them that were impossible.

536
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,000
And I wanted to find out if they were true.